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pmichaelmd
Community Legend
October 4, 2021, 4:31 pm
0

Considering a Revero GT vs G6S

Hello all!

I am a newbie to this forum and the Karma brand and am considering either a 2020 Revero GT or 2021 G6S and thought I would seek opinions here as this seems to be the only forum with participation.

A little background on me. I have been a car nut since I got my first issue of C&D in 1983 and have bought and traded a ton over the past twenty something years. Sadly I have to reference my USAA account to see what number vehicle I am insuring to keep up.  I guess there are worse problems to have, though, and retirement is overrated...right? 

Anyhow, I have been thinking about making the move to a BEV or PHEV from my 2020 Jag F-Pace SVR and came across these Karma vehicles. I remember when it was Fisker and always loved the uniqueness of it but wasn't ready to risk battery fires and bankruptcy filings at that time so held off. Many of my colleagues have Tesla Model S rides and I like to be a little different (plus the interiors strike me as somewhat pedestrian and I read horror stories about QC issues).

Have done a little research on the Taycan and may go look, but am drawn back to Karma. The deals seeem to be great  they don't move many of them and the exotic look pulls me in. Of course I have some trepidation regarding reliability and support as the pandemic seems to have slowed down even the larger manufacturers and I have followed the stories written on this forum.

If I may, are there any things about either model that any owners miss or have second thoughts about? It appears that there is no SiriusXM radio and the stereo system doesn't have the "wow" of my Meridian system or other high-end systems. Is there a WiFi hotspot for my munchkins to use while they relax in the back seats? I will be driving one shortly to test their fit as I am also a tall guy, 6'5", and hope that doesn't keep me from buying.

Any comments on daily driving and reliability as this would be my daily? Would hate to have a bunch of downtime with the car in the shop while driving a loaner or rental. Am also hoping the support of the local Karma dealer is superb. 

Am looking forward to any and all feedback as I compare these vehicles to the Taycan!

 

Best regards,

PMMD

This post was edited 10/05/2021 11:23:38

29 replies / 580 views
BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 5, 2021, 12:32 pm

GS-6 in a heartbeat, one word "warranty" this is a failry new platform 2020+ both Revero GT and GS-6 are identical cars that is from the information that was published so far.

"Performance" engine was an option on the Regero GT, it is standard on the GS-6, 4.2s vs 3.9s 0-60mph that is with launch control.

Now back to fairly new car statement, how good is your dealership? What kind of relationship do you have with them? What's their reputation?

The GS-6 will turn head for sure, there is not a week I do not get questions, thumbs up, shouts, not as much as some of my other cars but still.

My car has been in the shop for the last week+ and my guesstimate is that it might take 2-3 more weeks to resolve all the QC related issues, so warranty is key.

My two cents.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 5, 2021, 6:39 pm

Hello, thank you for your reply. I followed your entire thread and I'm hopeful that there is some resolution for your quality control issues. My youngest daughter and I test drove a 20 Revero GT today and I did not notice any obvious panel gaps, or window seal issues as there was a light drizzle. There was a slight squeaking noise when releasing the brake, but I suppose that could be easily oiled.

I was debating how I would do with Internet radio versus SiriusXM as well as without an in car Wi-Fi hotspot. There are workarounds for all of these things I think I would be OK with that. The stereo sound is surprisingly good for the limited number of speakers it has as compared to the upmarket systems to which I am accustomed. The exterior was absolutely stunning and many passers by stopped to ogle it.

I live in metro Atlanta and the Karma dealer here seems to be very supportive. He brought the car out close to where I live to look at on his day off. If that kind of accessibility continues, I worry a little less about support although your experience with trying to reach national headquarters leaves me somewhat hesitant. This would be my daily driver and I can't afford the downtime to have it in the shop 70 miles away. Now I need to go to the dealer and touch the G6S and compare it to the 20 Revero GT. Anything else you can think of? I really appreciate your advice and wish there was more activity on this board. 

Best,

PMMD

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 5, 2021, 7:04 pm

Few key points,

Budget for a 220V charger, the car comes with a 110V which takes about 26-28 hours to recharge the battery. I'm still floored the car is delivered with a 110V what a bad first experience, next day thinking your car will be fully charge; but no 110V will not do the job!

Internet Radio, it's 3G, better reception than SiriusXM in my experience (I'm west coast) that said the service is a joke, you get only one channel LOL and the music selection is poor. I think they had plans, but that's all it is, plans...

It's a very silent car, I love it, if I ever get it back I'll keep loving the car, for what it is. You are not buying a Tesla or an S-Class, both are much much better.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 5, 2021, 9:26 pm

I was interested in internet radio as well and the salesman was able to push the icon next to the Karma station and a bunch of options turned up. Seemed to be very much like TuneIn radio. Unbelievable that it doesn't come with a 220V charger, that seems like quite an omission. I used to want an S Class but am more interested in electric vehicles at this point. I also looked at the I Pace, but don't know if it would do it for me. The idea of having the engine as a back up makes me feel better about range anxiety. Are you saying you find Tesla and the S class to be better than your Karma? Will be quite interested to see how it is once you get it back. Crazy that it has been in the shop for so long. 

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 6, 2021, 6:49 pm

pmichaelmd  Got the car back today, they only fixed the yellow engine light everything else is pending and waiting on Karma's approval...

And on my way home from the repair shop a loud pop could be heard and a red light came up for High Voltage Error, and the yellow engine light is back, and a green turtle light is on to indicate the car is in limp mode.

Karma is sending a tow truck, back to the repair shop.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 6, 2021, 9:21 pm

BoudahXL  Good grief! I am sorry to hear that and can't believe Karma has to await approval to repair the QC issues you showed above. This kind of experience is what makes me hesitate somewhat. Your case sounds more like Lemon Law territory, but hopefully they will resolve these issues with some speed. Can't imagine being stuck in limp mode, they need to resolve that immediately. Do you know of any other owners who have experienced what you have? I only hear the good stories from my salesman who has a vested interest in sharing success stories. 

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 9, 2021, 4:14 pm

pmichaelmd  Karma's stance on the limp mode is due to a software glitch which happens if your wheels slip, for example over water/ice/snow, and they said they have no date release on a fix "if ever".

 

This reply was edited 10/09/2021 16:15:28

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 9, 2021, 7:29 pm

BoudahXL  That is unbelievable! I can't believe you are going through this, definitely sounds like you got a lemon!!

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 12, 2021, 1:49 pm

Is there anybody out there who drivers his/her Revero GT as a daily? I am still on the cusp of purchasing but BOUDAHXL's experience causes me to hesitate. Perhaps his experience is unique and his is a lemon, but am hoping owners with positive experiences are out there as well.

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 15, 2021, 2:38 pm

Sales reached out, they are working on a resolution. Expectations were an answer today. I got pushed back into next week. Always important to set expectations right, and a pushback is a fail.

I'll keep you posted but so far the conversation is happenning. I have never experienced such a bad QC issue on a car before.

But Karma is looking into resolutions. I am very open and patient let's see if they step up to the plate.

On a side note I see you already look into this other thread https://hub.karmaautomotive.com/post/public/gs-6-build-quality/cd00692c3bfe59267d5ecfac5310286c Sadly no news on this one I am super curious as to how Karma resolved the QC issues. But one thing in common is Quality Control, and I can give them a pass. They are learning, look at how a giant like Tesla is still learning about the car industry.

Then again set expectations right luxury cars is not a Totota Camry and your customer's expectations are differents.

This reply was edited 10/15/2021 14:42:49

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 19, 2021, 12:10 pm

BoudahXL  Thank you, a very helpful thread. I really like the look of the Revero GT, but have concerns about quality and support given the company size. I wish there were alternatives in the hybrid space that were also extended range. The Panamera E-hybrid and BMW 745e are there, but they have nothing like the range or panache of the Karma. I guess I will continue to follow your experience and that of others as I decide whether or not to throw my hat into the ring.

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 19, 2021, 1:03 pm

pmichaelmd  Yes indeed, let's forget the QC issues for a moment. And who knows maybe they will make up for it...

The Revero GT - GS-6 is a superior one of a kind car, yes the Panamera E-Hybrid has a superb quality reputation but it's one of many.

At 110k the Karma is better than the Panamera. But looking at these threads and they all point out to QC issues it's concerning. Either you get in gear ASAP or you give customer support like no other, you can't fail on all front QC/Support/Expectations.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 19, 2021, 7:37 pm

BoudahXL  Exactly.  Of course my local dealer reports that he hasn't heard of any such issues, but who knows what is really going on with such a small company? As long as they remain solvent...

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 20, 2021, 12:11 pm

pmichaelmd  I'm part of a couple of car clubs here in Washington. And there are more than 3 Karma owners that I have been talking too. They all had issues, which to be honest is "normal". I mean talk to any McLaren owner for example and they will explain how they had to go through error lights/message in the first few months on each new cars. But they get resolved, the company issue a journal update.

But they are very very surprised at how many issues this specific one has and how long it is taking for Karma to take position.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 20, 2021, 12:52 pm

BoudahXL  Wow, hate to hear that. This will be my first experience with a vehicle like Karma so my fingers are crossed!

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 20, 2021, 3:04 pm

pmichaelmd  Goodluck sir! Customer service pushed the resolution again, stating they need to review all the information.

I am days later, no car, no loaner, just waiting.

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

October 24, 2021, 10:29 am

BoudahXL  I hope you have had some luck at this point.  I took the plunge and am on day 4 of ownership of a new Revero GT. First evening I had a few faults, internet radio wouldn't work and I was apprehensive.  By the next morning all faults had cleared and we are sailing along smoothly.

A few things I have picked up: Internet Radio is pretty awesome and I haven't really listened much to the Karma channel. Hit the magnifying glass search and hundreds of possibilities come up. With my background I listed to German and UK stations mostly and the reception is superior to the 64 kbps c**p that SiriusXM puts out.

Charging on a 15A, 110 V common outlet is SLOW...but doable if charging overnight. Have a portable Level 2 charger coming today so I can use the 50a 240 V circuit at my hospital and will have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50p outlet and circuit in my garage.

Once engaged the lane keep assist and distance cruise work quite well. I have to restart them each time, but am happy with the result.

Had noted a manufacturing defect along the lateral hoodline, but that can be machined out.  Otherwise am happy with build quality thus far. I am much more concerned with software reliability and support but so far, so good. 

Am making the best use of the limited trunk space as it fits my kids' backpacks and football gear, but not much else. If I want to go golfing I will have to steal my wife's Denali or take my own golf cart around the bend.

 

I hope you have gotten some resolution to your plight and are able to enjoy yours soon as well.

 

Regards,

PMMD

BoudahXL
Community Guru

October 30, 2021, 3:12 pm

pmichaelmd  If I ever get back a Karma car I will check that magnifying glass for sure, thanks for the tip!

As far as Level-1 charger if your car is 18% or less it will take more than overnight.

The "Enhanced" cruise control is very very very nice, I'd say it work much better than my Infinity used to and our Grand Cherokee. It's on par with Merc.

Lane keep assist is meh, you have to nudge the wheel from time to time otherwise it'll bug you on the HUD, I wish it would require only a touch.

Keep us updated!

Hachisma1
Community Contributor

October 31, 2021, 10:51 pm

Go for it!  I had an original Fisker Karma. It had its quirks, but you grew to know them and what to do about them. The look and feel of that car was indescribable. It was my every day driver and I loved every mile. 

Fast forward to this past week. I traded my original Fisker in on a Revero GT. At first I was disappointed they changed the front end from the Fisker "mustache" to the Tesla-looking front end. But after driving it from Atlanta to Houston I am again in love with this car. I plan on it again being my every day car. 

I went with Revero GT over the GS because if the 4 year/unlimited miles warranty. GS is 4 years/50,000 miles. Since it's my every day car,, that made the decision for me. Both have the HV warranty of 10 years/150,000 miles.  They're very similar cars and from owning the Fisker, I know the HV is the expensive part, but I liked the unlimited mileage better. 

After owning the Fisker for 9 years, I know these cars take some getting used to - no illusions on my part (familiarize yourself with the "hard reset"-it basically resolves all issues). But what you never get tired of is the comments and questions you'll get discussing how unique looking the car is. Planning on keeping this one 9+ years too!

This reply was edited 10/31/2021 22:59:46

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

November 1, 2021, 6:42 am

Beautiful car! I think I just missed you at the dealership as your Fisker was on the lift while my car was being prepped. We had the same salesman and he told me your story of driving yours as a daily also to make me feel better about doing the same. I bought the black GT probably the same day you bought the blue!

So far it has been great with a few minor electrical stalls the first evening which seem to have reset themselves by the next morning. Smooth sailing the past week and a half. I have a level two charger to bring to work and I'm having a Wallbox installed this week for level two charging at home. And internet radio has been a blast, I don't miss Sirius at all. When I take the kids to school their friends think I am driving a spaceship. Lol.  I am having a graphene coating applied tomorrow morning for shine and protection, will see how that goes. How do you perform your hard reset when needed? So far mine has done it itself, once while driving, but it was just the head unit and the reboot was very fast. 

Cheers to almost meeting you!

PMMD

PS I think that is your Fisker on the lift above mine!

BoudahXL
Community Guru

November 1, 2021, 7:19 pm

Hachisma1 Looks very very nice with the diamond turned wheels!

BoudahXL
Community Guru

November 1, 2021, 7:20 pm

pmichaelmd  Guys have experience the black infotainment screen too???

How about the HUD left and right side going blank?

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

November 1, 2021, 7:53 pm

BoudahXL  I have had the infotainment screen reset itself as well as the dashboard display, but the correction was instantaneous. Almost like the system just rebooted itself. That was a little disconcerting as I was driving on the highway, but the reset was literally 10 seconds. 

Hachisma1
Community Contributor

November 1, 2021, 8:27 pm

pmichaelmd  Small world! (Literally, in terms of Revero owners!)  Yes it was sad to walk away from my Fisker, but I'm excited to have the new technology. 

Hard reset - if you ever get any dash or infotainment errors, it typically resolves 99% of them. Make sure you have your keys outside of the vehicle when you do this. Open the hood. On the passenger side you'll see a cable. One end is "clamped down" and the other half is fairly loose. (Picture below) Press the tab and pull the two pieces apart. Leave them disconnected for 10 minutes, plug them back in and you're all set!  Sometimes when you get back in the car the dash will say "brake calibration"  if it does just turn on and then off your parking break. Like I said 99% of the time you'll be all set to go!  

I was fortunate with my original Fisker. I had none of the issues many experienced. It was a pretty well known fact that if you had a VIN above 500 you had better luck. They worked out the kinks in the mfg process after the first 500.  I had 803. Any over 2000 you needed to be wary that it was one (of many) that got caught in port in Newark during Hurricane Sandy and probably got flooded. Water and electricity don't go together well!  I was very fortunate i was in the "sweet spot" above 500 and below 2000. Never had any issues I couldn't resolve with a hard reset. 

One last tip...the OEM Goodyear tires will wear out around 15,000 miles (sometimes sooner depending on where you're driving). After going through 3 sets (costly, because of frequency and the tire is exclusively for this car) I found Nexans that fit. The tread/grip was fantastic, they only cost about $150/tire AND they came with a 45,000 mile tread warranty. IMHO much better tire than the Goodyear. I had 55,000 miles on them when I traded it in and they still had great tread life left. 

In my experience this car was meant to be driven. The more, the better. With my Fisker network the people who had the most issues were those who barely drove them or put them in storage for a portion of the year. In my non-technical mind that's like putting a flashlight in the drawer and when you pull it out it's dead because the batteries are drained. Sometimes there's even corrosion.  I think it's the same with these cars. Drive it and have fun!

This reply was edited 11/01/2021 20:28:49

Hachisma1
Community Contributor

November 1, 2021, 8:32 pm

BoudahXL  scroll up to read my instructions for a hard reset. This might solve your issue. 

This reply was edited 11/01/2021 20:33:09

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

November 1, 2021, 8:34 pm

Hachisma1  Awesome info, thank you! Maybe we will be lucky with our GTs and have fewer problems. I definitely intend to use it as my daily and anticipate 10-11k miles/year. The unlimited mileage warranty makes me worry less (so long as the company stays in business... some of boudha's posts above give me some pause). I agree, these cars need to be driven! 

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

November 8, 2021, 9:45 am

Hachisma1  Is there a trick to pressing the tab to pull the cable apart? I can't get it to depress to pull apart because I think I need to do a hard reset. My USB cable and stereo stopped working and I'm going to try a hard reset.

Thanks!

 

Edit - never mind, I managed to get the gray stop out and disconnect. Guess we will see what happens now.

This reply was edited 11/08/2021 09:47:26

pmichaelmd
Community Legend

November 8, 2021, 10:07 am

The hard reset worked wonders and everything is back up and running. No brake recalibration requested at this time. The only thing I cannot do is get the gray stop back in but the connection seems solid without it so I guess I will leave it out for now.

 

 Flipped the stop and was able to replace it. Good to go!!

This reply was edited 11/14/2021 22:08:12




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